| The Harvey Boys |
by William Sheridan
In 150 years of Thistle history, only one Grandfather & Grandson pairing has seen action in the Partick Thistle first team, and that seems like an excellent reason for a new written piece… this is the story of the Harvey Boys!
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| ● John Sr. & John Jr. - the Harvey boys! |
That PTFC hall of fame legend John Harvey was grandson of a 19th century Jag has long been one of those obscure quiz trivia factoids that lurks in the back of the mind, but I'd never given it too much thought until I started the long and arduous process of properly identifying as many of the Partick Thistle players in history as possible. I spoke to fellow historian Stuart Deans about it a few years back. He had spoken with John Jr. for a long-lost podcast, and Grandfather John's exploits as a 19th century Jagsman were confirmed. “100%” said Stuart, which is usually a very good sign. This gave me the basic spur, but when I looked into it, there was a problem… the expected names weren't adding up. Together with my colleague Joe Kelly, we traced the Harvey family tree; the John McDonald Harvey (b. 1933) that we all know and love was the son of John McDonald Harvey (b. 1903) who in turn was the son of John McDonald Harvey (b. 1871). Clearly, a family naming tradition was in place; all of the boys carried 'McDonald' in tribute to Helen McDonald (b. 1849 Denny), mother of our original 19th century John.
This was problematic though, as the 19th century Partick Thistle player had been labelled as a 'John Arthur H. Harvey' in books and websites down through the years. What was going on? Might there have been two John Harvey's back in the 19th century? Maybe Grandfather John was a lowly reserve and it was this 'Arthur' feller who was the big time player? I had questions. There was only one thing for it - I had to speak to the main man and get to the bottom of it. This was in August 2024 and it occurred to me that John was all set for one of his regular appearances in favour to Thistle's matchday experience in the Alan Rough lounge. The ever-helpful hospitality host Brian Welsh was able to fix me up with an arranged phone call, which was ideal (thank you Welshy!) and so it all unfolded.
“Hi John, it's William Sheridan here from the Thistle Archive”… “Hi Bill, I've been expecting your call” came the bright and cheerful reply. We were pals already. Speaking to John reminded me of speaking to Robert Reid; the recollect, the endlessly fascinating tales, the gentlemanly discourse, an all-round geniality. I thought we'd maybe have a 10 or 15 minutes call to clear up the confusion. 90 minutes later, we could have went another 90 easy! He was as fascinated with me as I was with him, I was able to relate all sorts that he didn't know, and he was very pleased to hear that his Grandad's story was coming forward. (As an aside, it turned out he's a friend of our family too, a great pal of my Dad's cousin!) There were tales of medals with Minerva, of Derby County players coming up to visit John in the 1900s, of how his Grandad was respected and community-minded. His father had told him that Grandfather John also carried their McDonald middle name, although even John himself was beginning to doubt it; a friend (an author who shall remain nameless) had kinda persuaded him that his Grandfather was this mysterious 'John Arthur' feller. Well, it just goes to show you, it pays to do your own research! Brilliantly, the family kept an excellent local newspaper article from 1908, with a splendid photo which we're now honoured to share with the world via the Archive.
A TRAGEDY
John Jr. (as I'll refer to him for the purposes of this article) was just an 8-year-old laddie when he lost his Grandad just before Christmas in 1941. Tragically, John Sr. was run down by a MacBraynes bus, causing a fatal head injury just after his 70th birthday, a fractured skull being the stated cause. His son, middle John, signed the registry entry. Despite this, John Jr. was blessed in that he was able to make some strong, enduring memories from those days. And, in fact, that into his 90s, he has a good, sharp memory with which to recall them! In what sounds like something straight out of 'The Broons', he recalled how, every Sunday, the family would pay a visit to Victoria Park Drive South to visit Gran & Grandad. The local bakery in Whiteinch, 'Langs', was famous for its cakes and, with a nod and a wink, Grandad John would always have two meringues especially for he and Grandson John! John Sr. was partial to a wee whisky and John Jr. recalls how Grandad turned up at Mum's house in Scotstoun one time, clearly having enjoyed a wee dram that day. “C'mon, I'm taking you and your pal up to Binghams Pond on Great Western Road” chimed the bold John, and the 3 duly set off for an afternoon of adventure. It turns out the plan was to hire a rowing boat for an hour. Little did John Jr. and his pal know that their sole purpose for the duration was to row John Sr. all around while he lorded it up as the master of the vessel!
SO, JUST WHO WAS OUR ORIGINAL JOHN HARVEY?
… and where does he sit in the grand scheme of Partick Thistle history? He was born in late 1871, in Whiteinch, the son of George Harvey (b. 1846 Glasgow, house joiner) and Helen Harvey (b. 1849 Denny, née McDonald). Sadly, their first-born (named John) died soon after birth in November 1870, as so many did in those days. It'd be fair to say, our John Sr. carried his unknown wee brother's name well.
John Sr. took his father's profession as a house joiner, and played as a footballer for fitness and to supplement his income. The half-back played with Minerva as a teenager, where he enjoyed some considerable success and gained noteriety. They had risen to become Glasgow's leading junior club, but folded at the end of season 1891-92, homeless and strapped for cash. Their record that season speaks for itself: P36, W28, D6, L2, F154, A39. It was a season in which they won the Glasgow Junior Cup and the Maryhill Charity Cup but, most impressively of all, they won the Scottish Junior Cup, beating Benhar Violet (Harthill) 5-2 at Cathkin Park. John captained the team and won representative honours with the Glasgow Junior FA, also serving as captain. Thistle signed eight Minervans for the 1892-93 season, namely William Alder, Andrew Stewart, James Mulvey, Robert Currie, Jacky Robertson, John Harvey, Maurice White and Joe Leiper. Between them they would make around 330 appearances and score some 50 goals.
The first game of that 1892-93 season, a friendly, saw an excellent crowd of 2,600 at Inchview for a game against Celtic, which had been advertised as being against the Celtic first eleven. However, a weakened side was sent to Whiteinch, still expected by Celtic to be good enough to win. Through goals from Harvey and Ingram (on their debuts) as well as Murray, Bruce and Paul, Thistle recorded their first-ever win over Celtic, by 5 goals to 2. (Funny enough, Grandson John would also excel against Celtic, but more on that later). Thistle were playing their second season of League football, in the Scottish Alliance, and results were fairly patchy. Luckily for Thistle, you didn't actually need to win matches to make progress in the Scottish Cup, as John would find out. In October 1892, Motherwell visited Inchview in the third preliminary round of the Scottish Cup and took a 2-0 lead before goals from Willie Paul and John Harvey took the game to a replay. The following week Thistle arranged for one-shilling rail tickets to the game in the hope that a good support would travel. The supporters were rewarded when the team fought out a 3-3 draw. There being no provision for second replays, both teams progressed to the fourth round draw, how quaint!
John was joint-top of the competitive appearances list (24) in that first 92-93 season, but sat out of the end-of-season Greenock Charity Cup, a tournament which was won by Thistle. Thistle resigned from the Scottish Alliance at the end of the campaign to become a founding member of the Scottish Football League Second Division in 1893-94. It was another mid-table season, but there were some memorable wins on the way; John played (and scored) in the club's all-time record League victory – a 13-1 win at home to Glasgow Thistle in March 1894! John also obliged Third Lanark as a guest during this season.
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| ● John made some friends for life with the Derby class of 1895. Back (l to r): Jimmy Methven, A. Staley, Joe Leiper. Mid (l to r): W. D. Clark (sec), John Cox, Archie Goodall, Jack Robinson, George Kinsey, Jonathan Staley. Seated (l to r): John Goodall (cap), John Paul, John Miller, Jimmy Stevenson, Hugh McQueen. Front (l to r): Steve Bloomer, Johnny McMillan. (ALA) |
Following the trend of chasing a lucrative season down south, John played with First Division Derby County in 1894-95, along with former Jags Watty Keay and Joe Leiper. However, he found it hard to register regular game time at that level, and made a 9-months move to Ilkeston Town before the season was through. John may not have been a big success on the park at County, but his warm disposition made a big impression and, for many years, he would receive visits from old team-mates whenever they were up in Glasgow. Getting wind of his imminent return to Scotland, Thistle made an approach in December 1895, but John opted to join his old Thistle teammate, Willie Freebairn, at Abercorn. He enjoyed his a season-and-a-half with the Abbies, winning the Second Division title in 1896 and subsequently experiencing top-flight football with them in 1896-97. John wasn't getting a regular game towards the end of that season however (injuries played a big part in that), so when Thistle renewed their interest in the summer of 1897, John jumped at the chance to join the 'Meadowside revolution'. The Jags were flying the Second Division flag at their new ground in 1897-98 and were looking forward to their first-ever season as a top-flight club. Unfortunately for John he had next to no involvement in the first team, a 6-1 league defeat at Ibrox in January representing his sole contribution at that level. 5 days later he had a chance at revenge as the Thistle reserves squared up to Rangers in the Scottish Cup final… a 0-6 loss this time. It was not the best week of John's life!
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| ● The PTFC board at the press inspection of Firhill on 16th Sep 1909. L to R: Andrew Jardine, George Miller, William Lindsay, William Reid (president), John Harvey, James Taylor, Richard Robertson. (SR) |
Despite having turned them down in 1895 (almost certainly on financial grounds) we get a sense that John had a strong affinity with Partick Thistle. They were his local team after all, and he had two spells at the club. By 1909, with Thistle now at Firhill, he was serving as a director, a measure of his prominence as a respected player too. At this time, some of the more football-minded directors were trusted to have a hand in team selection, and John did some scouting for the club, usually on his old juniors turf, sometimes accompanied by Alec Raisbeck or George Easton. All the while, he was now running his own joinery business (George Harvey & Son est. 1879) following the death of his late father. The business won some important contracts; “its reputation for thorough workmanship and excellence of material is unsurpassed” said one article. In the circumstances, it would be surprising if John's firm didn't have some involvement in the emergence of Firhill, as a whole new ground rose from a patch of Maryhill wasteland adjacent to the Forth & Clyde Canal. Like his father before him, John was community-minded and was involved in all manners of good causes and committees relating to the public weal, in fields of politics as well as recreation. During the First World War, John did his bit by serving as a Special Constable, for which he was awarded a medal. A pillar of the community, John had a wide circle of friends and he was known to possess a “pawky” sense of humour!
John had married in 1902, and immediately began to raise a family with Violet Craig. Their first-born - also named John McDonald Harvey - arrived in 1903. In 1933, he too would name his first-son John McDonald Harvey. Little did they know that the new arrival would follow in Grandad's footsteps as a highly prominent footballer with Partick Thistle! Unsurprisingly in the circumstances, the Harveys all grew up as Thistle supporters.
CONTINUING THE FAMILY NAME
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| ● John Harvey, early 50s. (SFB) |
John Harvey Jr. went considerably longer than his Grandad though. With his playing days in the Partick Thistle first team spanning almost 14 years from 1951 to 1965, John Harvey sits comfortably in the all-time Top 10 in terms of loyalty and longevity. John served under two great Thistle managers in Davie Meiklejohn and Willie Thornton, although he'd tell you the former was a bit too quick to criticize at times and the latter could be sometimes be a little too casual in his approach. Oh, the gossip! Having made well over 400 appearances for the club, the big man was inducted into the Partick Thistle hall of fame in 2009.
From the off in the late 40s, new Partick Thistle manager Davie Meiklejohn was plotting the future path for Partick Thistle, and developing a strong youth policy was key to his plans. Trainer Arthur Dixon — his former Rangers team-mate and head coach of the Scottish schoolboys — was Meek's trusted lieutenant, and it was he who brought the 15-year-old John Harvey — then at Victoria Drive School — into the fold at Firhill. The masterplan was to farm out the prospective talent to the juniors, and John would develop his game for the best part of 2 years at Ballieston, before signing his first professional contract with Thistle in February 1951.
John started out as a right-sided midfielder (a right half as they were known back in the day) who liked to get forward. As Robert Reid once put it: “We all remember that long, loping stride which took him past opponents and deep into enemy territory. There was a majestic quality about John's play which is seldom seen these days”. Later, John settled as an out and out centre half, his height and strength being considerable assets in that department too. Over the years, John's contributions helped the club to many notable achievements, including two third place League finishes (1953-54 & 1962-63), a League Cup final (1956) and three Glasgow Cup wins (1952, 1954 & 1960), but why only one League Cup final when Thistle appeared in three?
I seemed to suffer injuries at the wrong time and missed a couple of league cup finals. I had torn ligaments in my knee that would now be cured by a quick operation. I used to be able to play one game a week but two would be difficult; stretching to stop the ball with my toe was incredibly painful. On another occasion I spilled a kettle of boiling water on my left foot while shaving. It was all red and blistered and I was sure I wasn't going to be able to play the game against Dunfermline, but the manager, Willie Thornton, simply said "you'll be fine, you don't kick the ball with that foot" and I went out to play!
The Glasgow Cup final of 1954 was played in front of 44,500 at Hampden and, after the equivalent of 17 games in 45 days, and against the odds, Thistle were “overwhelmingly superior” to Rangers, yet they were without the injured Bobby Bell for most of the second half. They should have been 2-up before Davie McParland's glorious 18-yard drive (18). It was 21-year-old John Harvey's 25-yarder (81) which made sure for the young Jags side. A great personal memory for John and, indeed, for all Thistle fans who were there.
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| ● Hampden glory 1954. Jimmy McGowan is aloft with the Glasgow Cup, goal hero John Harvey 3rd from left! (PTS) |
Indeed, bona-fide Partick Thistle legends are naturally created when sensational exploits against the Old Firm are achieved, and John is certainly not wanting in that regard. We only need to casually glance at his playing record at Celtic Park in combat against the green & white hoops:
| 9. (19y, 6m, 23d) #8 Wed-13-Aug-1952 [a] W5-2 Celtic (League Cup Division A, Section A - game 2) |
| 46. (21y, 7m, 19d) #4 Thu-09-Sep-1954 [a] D2-2 Celtic (Glasgow Cup Semi Final replay) aet |
| 49. (21y, 8m, 0d) #4 Tue-21-Sep-1954 [a] W5-4 Celtic (Glasgow Cup Semi Final 2nd replay) |
| 62. (22y, 1m, 19d) #4 Sat-12-Mar-1955 [a] D0-0 Celtic (SFL Division A - game 24) |
156. (24y, 11m, 0d) #8 Sat-21-Dec-1957 [a] W3-2 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 16)  |
| 187. (26y, 6m, 22d) #4 Wed-12-Aug-1959 [a] W2-1 Celtic (League Cup Section 1 - game 2) |
| 226. (27y, 2m, 22d) #5 Tue-12-Apr-1960 [a] W4-2 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 31) |
| 238. (27y, 7m, 10d) #5 Wed-31-Aug-1960 [a] W2-1 Celtic (League Cup Section 2 - game 5) |
| 251. (27y, 9m, 22d) #5 Sat-12-Nov-1960 [a] W1-0 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 11) |
| 276. (28y, 10m, 11d) #4 Sat-02-Dec-1961 [a] L1-5 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 14) |
| 313. (29y, 10m, 3d) #5 Sat-24-Nov-1962 [a] W2-0 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 13) |
| 344. (30y, 9m, 19d) #5 Sat-09-Nov-1963 [a] L3-5 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 11) |
| 354. (30y, 11m, 2d) #5 Mon-23-Dec-1963 [a] L1-2 Celtic (Glasgow Cup Quarter Final replay) |
| 383. (31y, 6m, 18d) #5 Sat-08-Aug-1964 [a] D0-0 Celtic (League Cup Section 3 - game 1) |
| 420. (32y, 2m, 27d) #5 Sat-17-Apr-1965 [a] W2-1 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 32) |
| 432. (32y, 9m, 16d) #5 Sat-06-Nov-1965 [a] D1-1 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 10) |
Played 16, won 9, drew 4, lost 3. How about that then? Surely, one of the best records in the game! (Incidentally, should you wish to explore any of these matches in greater detail, simply click on the match result.)
Another wonderful highlight for John came in 1962-63 when the Jags were gunning for the Scottish flag itself, and he featured in a glorious run of 10 consecutive top-flight wins before the New Year. Keen students of Thistle history will note John's routine win at Celtic Park:
| 306. (29y, 8m, 15d) #5 Sat-06-Oct-1962 [h] W3-0 Dundee United (SFL First Division - game 6) |
| 307. (29y, 8m, 22d) #5 Sat-13-Oct-1962 [a] W2-0 Falkirk (SFL First Division - game 7) |
| 308. (29y, 8m, 29d) #5 Sat-20-Oct-1962 [h] W2-1 Dunfermline Athletic (SFL First Division - game 8) |
| 309. (29y, 9m, 6d) #5 Sat-27-Oct-1962 [h] W2-1 St Mirren (SFL First Division - game 9) |
| 310. (29y, 9m, 13d) #5 Sat-03-Nov-1962 [a] W1-0 Queen of the South (SFL First Division - game 10) |
| 311. (29y, 9m, 20d) #5 Sat-10-Nov-1962 [h] W1-0 Dundee (SFL First Division - game 11) |
| 312. (29y, 9m, 27d) #5 Sat-17-Nov-1962 [a] W3-2 Raith Rovers (SFL First Division - game 12) |
| 313. (29y, 10m, 3d) #5 Sat-24-Nov-1962 [a] W2-0 Celtic (SFL First Division - game 13) |
| 314. (29y, 10m, 10d) #5 Sat-01-Dec-1962 [h] W3-0 Airdrieonians (SFL First Division - game 14) |
| 316. (29y, 10m, 17d) #5 Sat-08-Dec-1962 [a] W2-0 Hibernian (SFL First Division - game 15) |
Of course, everyone knows the story by now, Thistle simply did not thaw out to full warmth after “the big freeze”, and slipped down to third place, albeit that was enough to guarantee European football in 1963-64. John managed to get himself on the scoresheet twice in the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, netting in the 3-0 win at home to Glentoran and in the 3-2 win against Spartak Brno in the next round, both of his goals coming from the penalty spot. Only Ernie Yard (3) can lay claim to scoring more goals for Thistle in European competition.
John departed Firhill halfway through the 1965-66 season, strangely without having received an actual benefit match, although he did receive two testimonial payments during his time, aptly for such a tremendous servant. He joined up with the troubled Third Lanark lot in late 1965, who were being managed by the egotistical fraudster chairman, Bill Hiddleston. Financial squabbles amongst players and other staff were rife at Cathkin and, unsurprisingly, John decided to retire as a player after only 6 months there.
John operated public houses and re-established his involvement at Firhill by acting as manager of the social club, before running the succesful Jagspool for several years. In his personal life, he married Isobel and lived in Bearsden for many years. Together they raised a family of three girls and two boys. He maintained a keen interest in other sports including golf (which he played off just a 4 handicap), tennis and bowls. In August 1998, the 65-year-old John led his Killermont foursome to victory in the Scottish Championships, defeating Irvine Winton by 14 to 9. Brilliantly, Winton were skippered by former Motherwell full back, Willie Kilmarnock. The boys were as competitive then as they were back in the day! John was a member of Allander Indoor Bowls Club for more than 40 years, up until it closed in 2022. He continues to play in 2025. John remains a true Thistle supporter and is a frequent visitor to Firhill into his 90s, never failing to answer the call when a half-time draw legend or a hositality guest is required.
Had John Sr. lived another 10 years or so, he'd have seen his young grandson make his debut for Partick Thistle. As we've read, Grandson John would become a Partick Thistle legend, winning cups, playing and scoring in Europe, and clocking up a mighty 434 appearances as a Jag, from 1951 to 1965. Young John done his Grandad proud, and the two stand together as an excellent chapter in the rich and storied history of Partick Thistle FC. Uniquely they stand as Partick Thistle's only Grandfather & Grandson pairing!
  Winning games in front of 30,000 fans at Firhill was a great experience. I look back and think how lucky I was to play with such a great bunch of players. Johnny MacKenzie, Willie Sharp and Jimmy Davidson were probably the pick of the bunch. We should have won more honours but maybe we needed a little more professionalism, we were perhaps a little bit comfortable with life at Firhill. My grandfather played for the club in the 1800s and was later a director. My family were all Thistle fans and to be signed straight from school at the age of 15 was a great thing for me. Playing for Partick Thistle was a boyhood dream come true. John Harvey Jr. |
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An original Thistle Archive publication, 30-Apr-2025. |
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Latest edit version, 21-Apr-2025. |
With special thanks to John Harvey, Reece Harvey & Brian Fowlie (Sunday Post).
For more reading on the boys, check our individual player-profile pages:
John Harvey →